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 Application for cleaner

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mourishin
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PostSubject: Application for cleaner   Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:31 pm

here are some of my cleans: ( i stole this from a test you gave someone else.. just let me know if you want to see something different. )
i tried to get more raws real fast today but all i found were already cleaned.. =\

psyren 141 p 7
psyren 141 p 9
psyren 141 p 13

they take me about 15-30 min cuz i've only been cleaning manga for... *cough* 4 days... ^^' i'm using photoshop CS5 and Topaz clean

here are the originals:
http://img812.imageshack.us/i/psyrench14113.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/i/psyrench14107.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/i/psyrench14109.jpg

advice / criticism is totally welcome~

i just want people to see this, cuz i love this picture~!
cuz i'm a turd: here is my pet clean =3
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:46 pm

Told you I would review your app in no-time xD

Well, lets see: The pages are correctly leveled, but only Topaz Clean won't be enough for cleaning manga in general (in the speedscan business xD). You will also need a denoiser (Topaz Denoise). Also, the settings you used for Topaz Clean are way too high! Razz The purpose of that software is not removing noise & dust (that's the denoiser's job), but to make the greys uniform.

My reccomendation: Read this tuto here, clean the pages again, and just before saving use Topaz Clean (with much lower values Razz). Then post your pages again so we can check up your progress.

Good luck!

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:56 pm

on it boss!

the long story:
totally all over the tutorial! i'm just not so PS smrt ^^'
in my defense, (dur moment) i couldn't figure out how to access the denoise tho i'd installed it. XD i cried and had to be saved ( it requires that you be in RGB.. oooohhhh -.-' ) by that point i'd installed clean and began playing.. i mentioned this is day 4? lol

but! i've figured out how to start denoise! hurrah!
/shamed in the corner
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:01 pm

tadaaa:
i picked some diff pages..
Psyren 141 - 1
Psyren 141 - 2
Psyren 141 - 9

i think these are blurrier than the earlier ones.. not sure what to do about it tho.. =\
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:20 pm

haha dude i love you already for your avvy x)
best of luck with the application, and i'm sure you'll get used to the cleaning biz soon enough =P

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:59 am

Let's see...

First page: You improved! Nice~ Not so far from the objective now Razz However, I have a couple of questions:

*Did you resize the page more than once while cleaning it?
*Did you T. Cleaned the page before being done?

Second page: Not so good D: However, that can be either the denoiser's or the T. Cleaner's fault. Attach your settings for both filters next time, so I can grasp where the problem comes from xD

Third page: Not so good (again D:). The page is very blurred. You have to lower your denoiser's settings.

In overall: not bad for being your 5th day in the cleaning business Razz Keep it up! You will be a good cleaner in no-time!

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:09 am

bajuwa: ha XD Gokudera is made of win!
but i'd be surprised if i got taken up as even a trainee with less than a week of cleaning XDDD but i'll be around to smear my avatar on the boards =p

Kiba: i only resized once for all of them.. can't remember if it was before or after topaz clean... o.o but i did use both clean and denoise. Tho.. after denoise, there's not much that putting it through clean does... prolly my denoise messes with it

i'll go play with it some more XD yay for vacations!
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:24 am

kk i figured out how to denoise AND clean.. somehow o.o it really doesn't seem to work unless i close out t he file and re-open it...? weird does it do that to you?

anywho... is this closer?
it seems blurry to me =\
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Sorry, but it's worse than before ">.< And in this case, the T. Clean has the responsability. You have to lower your values way too much! They are incredibly high, look how your page ended with no pattern at all, just plain greys Razz

Also, remember to attacht the settings next time. It makes the job of analysing the page easier for me Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:40 pm

using the 2 together really is nomming my face >.< why are they pretty with clean and crappy if i denoise?!?! rawr

i totally cheated on this one and barely denoised, then barely cleaned and burned the crap out of it... =\

the details: crop, switch to 16bit/Ch, level
denoise: Suppress: 1.03 Recover: .45 (no change) clean: .3 blur: .29
level, clean ( i saved them since the numbers aren't very helpful..) switch back to grayscale, level, burn, resize.

ch 141, p 11
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:06 pm

Increase your suppress noise setting (should be at least 1.4 if you're using Vic's raws).

Lower your strength for T. Clean, increase the radius and threshold.
For edges: These two I usually just play around with to see what looks nice, but I would increase the sharpness setting.
For Texture: You need to increase the texture setting to at least 0.8. Boost and Size I usually just mess around with to find what looks good.

You should be using T. Clean at the end, after you resize.
Read this to learn what order to do things in.
http://mudascantrad.forummotion.com/help-f6/learn-to-clean-in-10-minutes-or-less-by-willow-sama-t10.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:20 pm

moar noise from me:
the settings
the pic
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:48 pm

best of luck!
you seem to be making the effort so i'm sure you'll have no problem. just keep it up x)

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:04 pm

and this one, it's given me grief both times i've picked it up.. =\
the leveling messes with the hair and how do i get those pale stripes ( from scanning? ) out?? >.<

psyren 141 p13
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:14 pm

Again, your improvement is noticeable Razz Now you must try to preserve the greys' pattern. This is a little tricky, and you must play around with both the denoiser and the Cleaner's values in order to archieve it. After you denoise and resize, there should be pattern left, and after you Clean it, it should also remain (but now with the greys more uniform).

As for the pages, in the first one I can see that you preserved a little pattern in Mirthra's hair; but it's still not enough (cuz the pattern in the background is gone). As for the second page (and your question of how to remove the stripes), there is no "automatic" method nor filter to do that: you must either burn that part (with the burn tool set at 3%) until you see it ended uniform, or dodge the other greys (again at 3%) so they tone matchs the color of the stripes. I prefer to use the last trick instead of burning (cuz the burning usually kills pattern or makes it look weird), but it always depends in how you want to do things Razz

Keep it up ^^ You almost have it :3

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:57 pm

i've also been thinking about the greys.. its tricky XDD and my T clean accent bar seems pretty sensitive about it ^^

here's what i've been playing with. i'm not sure if i should be focused on the drink machine or the shadows..

I think this is over denoised.. pixely... i don't like how i lost the leaves at the top.. but its not full of greys -.-'
i like this one more but its more blurry and very grey..
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:15 am

lol, i see the pages you submit here as ieatmanga tests.,

nvm, btw the 2nd page was better, although it's underleveled.
and did you resized the 1st page 2 times.? i'm not sure but the pxels there was messed up.
try again, i'm sure you'll hit the right values after lots of practicing. (altho practicing is what i lack i still recommend it xD)

and anyways this is just an opinion. ^^
my 'eyes' were not as better as Kiba's. XDD
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:12 pm

I don't see underleveled pages xD But what I do see is that you are still using uber-super-high values! (especially the Clean ones). Also, the first page is clearly overdenoised (you killed the buildings in the horizon Razz).

Remember that the sole task of T.Clean is to make the greys uniform, nothing more, nothing less. Having the possibility of making the greys plain is a plus, but we don't use that feature (almost nobody does xD).

My reccomendation: Use even lower values than the ones you used in the 2nd Bbub page, and lower values of T.Clean. Also, pick a picture with lots of greys and stick with it from now on (cuz different series need different cleaning values, and if you are changing series, you won't be able to grasp what's a good "denoising parameter" Razz)

Luck! ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:20 pm

weird. my eyes told me that the page were lacking blacks. @_@
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:51 pm

if your eyes look like that *@_@* no wonder your seeing things

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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:20 pm

*removed contact lense = o_O were you saying something DK
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:25 pm

heidenrex: i've been taking raws from all over XD
thx for the help tho! <3
i only resize once on all mine.. wonder why they look so wonky o.o

kiba: i noticed those buildings and tried to burn them but could never bring them back =( moar practice!!! lol

i was just playing with those pages cuz ppl said they're hard because of all the grays. ^^;; psyren 141 has quite a few pages with sky so i can stick to that =D

P.S. i just relocated 4 hours away so i don't have new pages.. =( i'll make a more interesting post after i make my apple pie XD
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:48 pm

ok.. everyone has said to lower my settings..
so here it is ( that annoying beelzebub page XD )
the settings
i resized once before the clean, leveled before and after the denoise and had to dodge the cloud and the border ^^'
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:58 pm

it's better.! but still blurry, try to max the threshold and radius in the noise selection. ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Application for cleaner   Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:42 pm

Let's talk about your settings. First, it's good that you're being cautious with the denoiser. Denoising can really mess up a page, but you're going too light. A suppression setting under 1.0 won't do much. And the other settings should be turned up probably around 0.3-0.4. From what I can tell though the denoising didn't damage the page, so good job there!

Now your T. Clean settings: Strength could probably be turned up a bit, to 2-4 (depends on the page) Texture, Boost, and Size all need to be turned up though. That way you will get a uniform pattern in the grays instead of a smoothed out mess. Also, you can use the tree branches at the top of the panel to determine if you're being too heavy handed with the T. Clean (they'll start to blend in with the sky if you are).

It's kind of hard for me to give really good advice without seeing the raw. Could you post it please? But anyway, you're doing a good job, keep it up. And keep practicing with this page!
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